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Ilena Rose

External


Since: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 810



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:46 pm
Post subject: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths
Archived from groups: misc>health>alternative, others (more info?)

The Vaccination Industry has had a long, successful and extremely
profitable run vaccinating seniors with NO evidence of any benefit to
anyone but themselves. On the internet, the Snake-oil Vigilantes (aka
Health Frauds) spread vast amounts of industry propaganda.
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm

Here's an earlier article on this topic.

http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
Health Lover


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83454.php

The mortality benefits of giving elderly people the flu vaccine have
been vastly overstated, according to a Review published in The Lancet
Infectious Diseases, October edition. Vaccinating people over 65
against influenza in developed countries is aimed at reducing the flu
mortality burden.

Dr Lone Simonsen, George Washington University, Washington, DC, USA
and team say that vaccinating not-so-frail elderly people more
frequently than their frail peers, plus the use of non-specific
endpoints, such as all-cause mortality, are the reasons for this
exaggeration.

"The remaining evidence base is currently insufficient to indicate the
magnitude of the mortality benefit, if any, that elderly people derive
from the vaccination program," say the authors.

Although placebo-controlled randomized trials have demonstrated that
the flu vaccine is effective in younger adults, a small number of
trials never included the elderly, especially those aged over 70.
About 75% of influenza related deaths occur among people aged 70 and
over, point out the authors.

These trials suggest that clinical gains and antibody responses in the
elderly fall with age after the age of 70.

Even though vaccination coverage rose from 15% in 1980 to 65% today,
there has been no confirmation of any influenza-related mortality
improvement since 1980, say the authors. "Paradoxically, whereas those
studies attribute about 5% of all winter deaths to influenza, many
cohort studies report a 50% reduction in the total risk of death in
winter - a benefit ten times greater than the estimated influenza
mortality burden."

The authors say that any future trial should use more precise
endpoints, for example, vaccine effectiveness against the highly
specific outcome of laboratory-confirmed influenza virus. Even though
such a trial would be more expensive and labor intensive, the vaccine
efficacy estimates are more likely to be reliable. Rather than use the
current arbitrary 4-month period, any future trial should also
identify the epidemic period for each season through utilization of
actual virus surveillance data.

The writers caution "While awaiting an improved evidence base for
influenza vaccine mortality benefits in elderly people, we suggest
that this group should continue to be vaccinated against influenza.
Influenza causes many deaths each year, and even a partly effective
vaccine would be better than no vaccine at all. But the evidence base
concerning influenza vaccine benefits in elderly people does need to
be strengthened."

"If current evidence points to substantial uncertainty, then what
next? Simonsen and colleagues suggest that 'refocusing on the likely
complications of immune senescence would require vigorous pursuit of
other options'. They also confront the ultimate taboo that drew so
much scorn in the evidence overview: doing randomized trials in
elderly people to settle the issue conclusively. That suggestion,
which seems to fly in the face of current policies, is in our opinion
the only ethical and scientific way to have definitive answer to the
question of whether or not current influenza vaccines protect elderly
people," Dr Tom Jefferson and Dr Carlo Di Pietrantonj, Cochrane
Vaccines Field, Alessandria, Italy, write in an accompanying Comment.
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Jeff

External


Since: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 45



(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>health>alternative, others (more info?)

On Aug 15, 6:46 pm, Ilena Rose <B....RemoveThis@mundo.com> wrote:

Your subject does not make sense. Tamiflu is a treatment for
influenza, not a vaccine.

The article you posted is old news, almost a year old.

<copyrighted material deleted>

Let us know when you get a clue.

Jeff
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D. C. Sessions

External


Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 374



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In message <c869747c-268d-4643-8b05-28ece7a376bf.DeleteThis@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Jeff wrote:

> Let us know when you get a clue.

Cue Edward Flaherty: http://thinkexist.com/quotes/edward_flaherty/

--
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs.DeleteThis@lumbercartel.com> -+
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Ilena Rose

External


Since: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 810



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>health>alternative, others (more info?)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vaccine
1. any preparation used as a preventive inoculation to confer
immunity against a specific disease, usually employing an innocuous
form of the disease agent, as killed or weakened bacteria or viruses,
to stimulate antibody production.

http://www.fda.gov/Cder/Drug/infopage/tamiflu/QA20051117.htm

What is Tamiflu and what is it approved for?

Tamiflu (oseltamivir phosphate) is an antiviral drug approved for
treatment of uncomplicated influenza A and B in patients 1 year of age
or older. It is also approved for prophylaxis (prevention) of
influenza in people 13 years or older after household contact or at
high risk for exposure during influenza season. Tamiflu is one of a
group of anti-influenza drugs called neuraminidase inhibitors that act
by blocking the viral enzyme neuraminidase which helps the influenza
virus invade cells in the respiratory tract.
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Jeff

External


Since: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 45



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>health>alternative, others (more info?)

On Aug 15, 9:40 pm, Ilena Rose <B... DeleteThis @mundo.com> wrote:
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vaccine
> 1.      any preparation used as a preventive inoculation to confer
> immunity against a specific disease, usually employing an innocuous
> form of the disease agent, as killed or weakened bacteria or viruses,
> to stimulate antibody production.
>
> http://www.fda.gov/Cder/Drug/infopage/tamiflu/QA20051117.htm
>
> What is Tamiflu and what is it approved for?
>
> Tamiflu (oseltamivir phosphate) is an antiviral drug approved for
> treatment of uncomplicated influenza A and B in patients 1 year of age
> or older. It is also approved for prophylaxis (prevention) of
> influenza in people 13 years or older after household contact or at
> high risk for exposure during influenza season. Tamiflu is one of a
> group of anti-influenza drugs called neuraminidase inhibitors that act
> by blocking the viral enzyme neuraminidase which helps the influenza
> virus invade cells in the respiratory tract.

Thanks. You made my point. Tamiflu is a neuramindiase inhibitor. That
means it inhibits a viral enzyme. It doesn't cause the body to make
antibodies like a vaccine. Furthermore, it helps prevent the virus
from getting into cells.

While vaccines prevent disease, not everything that prevents disease
is a vaccine. For example, hand-washing prevents disease. But hand-
washing is not a vaccine, either. Tamiflu is an antiviral drug, almost
like an antibiotic for viruses.

The key points of a vaccine are that it is an innocuous form of a
disease agent it and it causes an immune response that causes the
production of antibodies. Look at the definition *you* provided.
Tamiflu is neither. Another key point of a vaccine is that it provides
protection (by the production of antibodies) long after the vaccine
has left the body. As soon as Tamiflu has left the body, the
protection that it conferred is gone.

Tamiflu is no more a vaccine than hand-washing.

Your continued arguing (by using more incorrect arguments) after it
has been pointed out that you are incorrect indicates that you don't
have a clue about which you are talking. You're grasping at straws,
and the wrong ones at that.

Jeff
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Ilena Rose

External


Since: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 810



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>health>alternative, others (more info?)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vaccine
1. any preparation used as a preventive inoculation to confer
immunity against a specific disease, usually employing an innocuous
form of the disease agent, as killed or weakened bacteria or viruses,
to stimulate antibody production.

http://www.fda.gov/Cder/Drug/infopage/tamiflu/QA20051117.htm

What is Tamiflu and what is it approved for?

Tamiflu (oseltamivir phosphate) is an antiviral drug approved for
treatment of uncomplicated influenza A and B in patients 1 year of age
or older. It is also approved for prophylaxis (prevention) of
influenza in people 13 years or older after household contact or at
high risk for exposure during influenza season. Tamiflu is one of a
group of anti-influenza drugs called neuraminidase inhibitors that act
by blocking the viral enzyme neuraminidase which helps the influenza
virus invade cells in the respiratory tract.
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Jan Drew

External


Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 2036



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Ilena Rose" <BIA RemoveThis @mundo.com> wrote in message
news:cq1ca4tdihe547cd48bcashhio19afn9u5@4ax.com...
> The Vaccination Industry has had a long, successful and extremely
> profitable run vaccinating seniors with NO evidence of any benefit to
> anyone but themselves. On the internet, the Snake-oil Vigilantes (aka
> Health Frauds) spread vast amounts of industry propaganda.
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
>
> Here's an earlier article on this topic.
>
> http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
> Health Lover
>
>
> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83454.php
>
> The mortality benefits of giving elderly people the flu vaccine have
> been vastly overstated, according to a Review published in The Lancet
> Infectious Diseases, October edition. Vaccinating people over 65
> against influenza in developed countries is aimed at reducing the flu
> mortality burden.
>
> Dr Lone Simonsen, George Washington University, Washington, DC, USA
> and team say that vaccinating not-so-frail elderly people more
> frequently than their frail peers, plus the use of non-specific
> endpoints, such as all-cause mortality, are the reasons for this
> exaggeration.
>
> "The remaining evidence base is currently insufficient to indicate the
> magnitude of the mortality benefit, if any, that elderly people derive
> from the vaccination program," say the authors.
>
> Although placebo-controlled randomized trials have demonstrated that
> the flu vaccine is effective in younger adults, a small number of
> trials never included the elderly, especially those aged over 70.
> About 75% of influenza related deaths occur among people aged 70 and
> over, point out the authors.
>
> These trials suggest that clinical gains and antibody responses in the
> elderly fall with age after the age of 70.
>
> Even though vaccination coverage rose from 15% in 1980 to 65% today,
> there has been no confirmation of any influenza-related mortality
> improvement since 1980, say the authors. "Paradoxically, whereas those
> studies attribute about 5% of all winter deaths to influenza, many
> cohort studies report a 50% reduction in the total risk of death in
> winter - a benefit ten times greater than the estimated influenza
> mortality burden."
>
> The authors say that any future trial should use more precise
> endpoints, for example, vaccine effectiveness against the highly
> specific outcome of laboratory-confirmed influenza virus. Even though
> such a trial would be more expensive and labor intensive, the vaccine
> efficacy estimates are more likely to be reliable. Rather than use the
> current arbitrary 4-month period, any future trial should also
> identify the epidemic period for each season through utilization of
> actual virus surveillance data.
>
> The writers caution "While awaiting an improved evidence base for
> influenza vaccine mortality benefits in elderly people, we suggest
> that this group should continue to be vaccinated against influenza.
> Influenza causes many deaths each year, and even a partly effective
> vaccine would be better than no vaccine at all. But the evidence base
> concerning influenza vaccine benefits in elderly people does need to
> be strengthened."
>
> "If current evidence points to substantial uncertainty, then what
> next? Simonsen and colleagues suggest that 'refocusing on the likely
> complications of immune senescence would require vigorous pursuit of
> other options'. They also confront the ultimate taboo that drew so
> much scorn in the evidence overview: doing randomized trials in
> elderly people to settle the issue conclusively. That suggestion,
> which seems to fly in the face of current policies, is in our opinion
> the only ethical and scientific way to have definitive answer to the
> question of whether or not current influenza vaccines protect elderly
> people," Dr Tom Jefferson and Dr Carlo Di Pietrantonj, Cochrane
> Vaccines Field, Alessandria, Italy, write in an accompanying Comment.
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Jan Drew

External


Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 2036



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>health>alternative, others (more info?)

"Ilena Rose" <BIA DeleteThis @mundo.com> wrote in message
news:cq1ca4tdihe547cd48bcashhio19afn9u5@4ax.com...
> The Vaccination Industry has had a long, successful and extremely
> profitable run vaccinating seniors with NO evidence of any benefit to
> anyone but themselves. On the internet, the Snake-oil Vigilantes (aka
> Health Frauds) spread vast amounts of industry propaganda.
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
>
> Here's an earlier article on this topic.
>
> http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
> Health Lover
>
>
> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83454.php
>
> The mortality benefits of giving elderly people the flu vaccine have
> been vastly overstated, according to a Review published in The Lancet
> Infectious Diseases, October edition. Vaccinating people over 65
> against influenza in developed countries is aimed at reducing the flu
> mortality burden.
>
> Dr Lone Simonsen, George Washington University, Washington, DC, USA
> and team say that vaccinating not-so-frail elderly people more
> frequently than their frail peers, plus the use of non-specific
> endpoints, such as all-cause mortality, are the reasons for this
> exaggeration.
>
> "The remaining evidence base is currently insufficient to indicate the
> magnitude of the mortality benefit, if any, that elderly people derive
> from the vaccination program," say the authors.
>
> Although placebo-controlled randomized trials have demonstrated that
> the flu vaccine is effective in younger adults, a small number of
> trials never included the elderly, especially those aged over 70.
> About 75% of influenza related deaths occur among people aged 70 and
> over, point out the authors.
>
> These trials suggest that clinical gains and antibody responses in the
> elderly fall with age after the age of 70.
>
> Even though vaccination coverage rose from 15% in 1980 to 65% today,
> there has been no confirmation of any influenza-related mortality
> improvement since 1980, say the authors. "Paradoxically, whereas those
> studies attribute about 5% of all winter deaths to influenza, many
> cohort studies report a 50% reduction in the total risk of death in
> winter - a benefit ten times greater than the estimated influenza
> mortality burden."
>
> The authors say that any future trial should use more precise
> endpoints, for example, vaccine effectiveness against the highly
> specific outcome of laboratory-confirmed influenza virus. Even though
> such a trial would be more expensive and labor intensive, the vaccine
> efficacy estimates are more likely to be reliable. Rather than use the
> current arbitrary 4-month period, any future trial should also
> identify the epidemic period for each season through utilization of
> actual virus surveillance data.
>
> The writers caution "While awaiting an improved evidence base for
> influenza vaccine mortality benefits in elderly people, we suggest
> that this group should continue to be vaccinated against influenza.
> Influenza causes many deaths each year, and even a partly effective
> vaccine would be better than no vaccine at all. But the evidence base
> concerning influenza vaccine benefits in elderly people does need to
> be strengthened."
>
> "If current evidence points to substantial uncertainty, then what
> next? Simonsen and colleagues suggest that 'refocusing on the likely
> complications of immune senescence would require vigorous pursuit of
> other options'. They also confront the ultimate taboo that drew so
> much scorn in the evidence overview: doing randomized trials in
> elderly people to settle the issue conclusively. That suggestion,
> which seems to fly in the face of current policies, is in our opinion
> the only ethical and scientific way to have definitive answer to the
> question of whether or not current influenza vaccines protect elderly
> people," Dr Tom Jefferson and Dr Carlo Di Pietrantonj, Cochrane
> Vaccines Field, Alessandria, Italy, write in an accompanying Comment.
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Login to vote
Jan Drew

External


Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 2036



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>health>alternative, others (more info?)

"Ilena Rose" <BIA.RemoveThis@mundo.com> wrote in message
news:cq1ca4tdihe547cd48bcashhio19afn9u5@4ax.com...
> The Vaccination Industry has had a long, successful and extremely
> profitable run vaccinating seniors with NO evidence of any benefit to
> anyone but themselves. On the internet, the Snake-oil Vigilantes (aka
> Health Frauds) spread vast amounts of industry propaganda.
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
>
> Here's an earlier article on this topic.
>
> http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
> Health Lover
>
>
> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83454.php
>
> The mortality benefits of giving elderly people the flu vaccine have
> been vastly overstated, according to a Review published in The Lancet
> Infectious Diseases, October edition. Vaccinating people over 65
> against influenza in developed countries is aimed at reducing the flu
> mortality burden.
>
> Dr Lone Simonsen, George Washington University, Washington, DC, USA
> and team say that vaccinating not-so-frail elderly people more
> frequently than their frail peers, plus the use of non-specific
> endpoints, such as all-cause mortality, are the reasons for this
> exaggeration.
>
> "The remaining evidence base is currently insufficient to indicate the
> magnitude of the mortality benefit, if any, that elderly people derive
> from the vaccination program," say the authors.
>
> Although placebo-controlled randomized trials have demonstrated that
> the flu vaccine is effective in younger adults, a small number of
> trials never included the elderly, especially those aged over 70.
> About 75% of influenza related deaths occur among people aged 70 and
> over, point out the authors.
>
> These trials suggest that clinical gains and antibody responses in the
> elderly fall with age after the age of 70.
>
> Even though vaccination coverage rose from 15% in 1980 to 65% today,
> there has been no confirmation of any influenza-related mortality
> improvement since 1980, say the authors. "Paradoxically, whereas those
> studies attribute about 5% of all winter deaths to influenza, many
> cohort studies report a 50% reduction in the total risk of death in
> winter - a benefit ten times greater than the estimated influenza
> mortality burden."
>
> The authors say that any future trial should use more precise
> endpoints, for example, vaccine effectiveness against the highly
> specific outcome of laboratory-confirmed influenza virus. Even though
> such a trial would be more expensive and labor intensive, the vaccine
> efficacy estimates are more likely to be reliable. Rather than use the
> current arbitrary 4-month period, any future trial should also
> identify the epidemic period for each season through utilization of
> actual virus surveillance data.
>
> The writers caution "While awaiting an improved evidence base for
> influenza vaccine mortality benefits in elderly people, we suggest
> that this group should continue to be vaccinated against influenza.
> Influenza causes many deaths each year, and even a partly effective
> vaccine would be better than no vaccine at all. But the evidence base
> concerning influenza vaccine benefits in elderly people does need to
> be strengthened."
>
> "If current evidence points to substantial uncertainty, then what
> next? Simonsen and colleagues suggest that 'refocusing on the likely
> complications of immune senescence would require vigorous pursuit of
> other options'. They also confront the ultimate taboo that drew so
> much scorn in the evidence overview: doing randomized trials in
> elderly people to settle the issue conclusively. That suggestion,
> which seems to fly in the face of current policies, is in our opinion
> the only ethical and scientific way to have definitive answer to the
> question of whether or not current influenza vaccines protect elderly
> people," Dr Tom Jefferson and Dr Carlo Di Pietrantonj, Cochrane
> Vaccines Field, Alessandria, Italy, write in an accompanying Comment.
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Hawki63

External


Since: Nov 06, 2006
Posts: 43



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Tamiflu is NOT flu vaccine Janster

not that I expect you to know there is a difference

sad that


"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374 DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:yTJpk.23115$Ri.12373@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Ilena Rose" <BIA DeleteThis @mundo.com> wrote in message
> news:cq1ca4tdihe547cd48bcashhio19afn9u5@4ax.com...
>> The Vaccination Industry has had a long, successful and extremely
>> profitable run vaccinating seniors with NO evidence of any benefit to
>> anyone but themselves. On the internet, the Snake-oil Vigilantes (aka
>> Health Frauds) spread vast amounts of industry propaganda.
>> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
>>
>> Here's an earlier article on this topic.
>>
>> http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
>> Health Lover
>>
>>
>> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83454.php
>>
>> The mortality benefits of giving elderly people the flu vaccine have
>> been vastly overstated, according to a Review published in The Lancet
>> Infectious Diseases, October edition. Vaccinating people over 65
>> against influenza in developed countries is aimed at reducing the flu
>> mortality burden.
>>
>> Dr Lone Simonsen, George Washington University, Washington, DC, USA
>> and team say that vaccinating not-so-frail elderly people more
>> frequently than their frail peers, plus the use of non-specific
>> endpoints, such as all-cause mortality, are the reasons for this
>> exaggeration.
>>
>> "The remaining evidence base is currently insufficient to indicate the
>> magnitude of the mortality benefit, if any, that elderly people derive
>> from the vaccination program," say the authors.
>>
>> Although placebo-controlled randomized trials have demonstrated that
>> the flu vaccine is effective in younger adults, a small number of
>> trials never included the elderly, especially those aged over 70.
>> About 75% of influenza related deaths occur among people aged 70 and
>> over, point out the authors.
>>
>> These trials suggest that clinical gains and antibody responses in the
>> elderly fall with age after the age of 70.
>>
>> Even though vaccination coverage rose from 15% in 1980 to 65% today,
>> there has been no confirmation of any influenza-related mortality
>> improvement since 1980, say the authors. "Paradoxically, whereas those
>> studies attribute about 5% of all winter deaths to influenza, many
>> cohort studies report a 50% reduction in the total risk of death in
>> winter - a benefit ten times greater than the estimated influenza
>> mortality burden."
>>
>> The authors say that any future trial should use more precise
>> endpoints, for example, vaccine effectiveness against the highly
>> specific outcome of laboratory-confirmed influenza virus. Even though
>> such a trial would be more expensive and labor intensive, the vaccine
>> efficacy estimates are more likely to be reliable. Rather than use the
>> current arbitrary 4-month period, any future trial should also
>> identify the epidemic period for each season through utilization of
>> actual virus surveillance data.
>>
>> The writers caution "While awaiting an improved evidence base for
>> influenza vaccine mortality benefits in elderly people, we suggest
>> that this group should continue to be vaccinated against influenza.
>> Influenza causes many deaths each year, and even a partly effective
>> vaccine would be better than no vaccine at all. But the evidence base
>> concerning influenza vaccine benefits in elderly people does need to
>> be strengthened."
>>
>> "If current evidence points to substantial uncertainty, then what
>> next? Simonsen and colleagues suggest that 'refocusing on the likely
>> complications of immune senescence would require vigorous pursuit of
>> other options'. They also confront the ultimate taboo that drew so
>> much scorn in the evidence overview: doing randomized trials in
>> elderly people to settle the issue conclusively. That suggestion,
>> which seems to fly in the face of current policies, is in our opinion
>> the only ethical and scientific way to have definitive answer to the
>> question of whether or not current influenza vaccines protect elderly
>> people," Dr Tom Jefferson and Dr Carlo Di Pietrantonj, Cochrane
>> Vaccines Field, Alessandria, Italy, write in an accompanying Comment.
>
>
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Jeff

External


Since: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 45



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:30 am
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>health>alternative, others (more info?)

On Aug 17, 10:54 am, "t" <tool... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> So, Jeff, why do you promote it so strongly?

I am not promoting anything. Only clarifying that Tamiflu is not a
vaccine.

However, I am delighted that the second greatest public health
intervention, vaccines, is saving millions of live a year. Vaccines
have wiped out small-pox and polio from the western hemisphere. They
nearly wiped out measles from the US. And they prevent deaths from Hib
meningitis, chicken-pox, rubella and rubella-related birdth defects,
and other disease.

(The greatest health intervention is sewerage disposal and safe
drinking water.)

Jeff

> How is your pharma stock doing?
> Or do you just get off knowing that people are harmed by your advice?"Jeff" <jeff.... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:91b5123b-e1be-454f-8bbe-ad76906581b5@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 9:40 pm, Ilena Rose <B... RemoveThis @mundo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vaccine
> > 1. any preparation used as a preventive inoculation to confer
> > immunity against a specific disease, usually employing an innocuous
> > form of the disease agent, as killed or weakened bacteria or viruses,
> > to stimulate antibody production.
>
> >http://www.fda.gov/Cder/Drug/infopage/tamiflu/QA20051117.htm
>
> > What is Tamiflu and what is it approved for?
>
> > Tamiflu (oseltamivir phosphate) is an antiviral drug approved for
> > treatment of uncomplicated influenza A and B in patients 1 year of age
> > or older. It is also approved for prophylaxis (prevention) of
> > influenza in people 13 years or older after household contact or at
> > high risk for exposure during influenza season. Tamiflu is one of a
> > group of anti-influenza drugs called neuraminidase inhibitors that act
> > by blocking the viral enzyme neuraminidase which helps the influenza
> > virus invade cells in the respiratory tract.
>
> Thanks. You made my point. Tamiflu is a neuramindiase inhibitor. That
> means it inhibits a viral enzyme. It doesn't cause the body to make
> antibodies like a vaccine. Furthermore, it helps prevent the virus
> from getting into cells.
>
> While vaccines prevent disease, not everything that prevents disease
> is a vaccine. For example, hand-washing prevents disease. But hand-
> washing is not a vaccine, either. Tamiflu is an antiviral drug, almost
> like an antibiotic for viruses.
>
> The key points of a vaccine are that it is an innocuous form of a
> disease agent it and it causes an immune response that causes the
> production of antibodies. Look at the definition *you* provided.
> Tamiflu is neither. Another key point of a vaccine is that it provides
> protection (by the production of antibodies) long after the vaccine
> has left the body. As soon as Tamiflu has left the body, the
> protection that it conferred is gone.
>
> Tamiflu is no more a vaccine than hand-washing.
>
> Your continued arguing (by using more incorrect arguments) after it
> has been pointed out that you are incorrect indicates that you don't
> have a clue about which you are talking. You're grasping at straws,
> and the wrong ones at that.
>
> Jeff
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t

External


Since: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 81



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:54 am
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

So, Jeff, why do you promote it so strongly? How is your pharma stock doing?
Or do you just get off knowing that people are harmed by your advice?
"Jeff" <jeff.utz RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:91b5123b-e1be-454f-8bbe-ad76906581b5@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 15, 9:40 pm, Ilena Rose <B... RemoveThis @mundo.com> wrote:
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vaccine
> 1. any preparation used as a preventive inoculation to confer
> immunity against a specific disease, usually employing an innocuous
> form of the disease agent, as killed or weakened bacteria or viruses,
> to stimulate antibody production.
>
> http://www.fda.gov/Cder/Drug/infopage/tamiflu/QA20051117.htm
>
> What is Tamiflu and what is it approved for?
>
> Tamiflu (oseltamivir phosphate) is an antiviral drug approved for
> treatment of uncomplicated influenza A and B in patients 1 year of age
> or older. It is also approved for prophylaxis (prevention) of
> influenza in people 13 years or older after household contact or at
> high risk for exposure during influenza season. Tamiflu is one of a
> group of anti-influenza drugs called neuraminidase inhibitors that act
> by blocking the viral enzyme neuraminidase which helps the influenza
> virus invade cells in the respiratory tract.

Thanks. You made my point. Tamiflu is a neuramindiase inhibitor. That
means it inhibits a viral enzyme. It doesn't cause the body to make
antibodies like a vaccine. Furthermore, it helps prevent the virus
from getting into cells.

While vaccines prevent disease, not everything that prevents disease
is a vaccine. For example, hand-washing prevents disease. But hand-
washing is not a vaccine, either. Tamiflu is an antiviral drug, almost
like an antibiotic for viruses.

The key points of a vaccine are that it is an innocuous form of a
disease agent it and it causes an immune response that causes the
production of antibodies. Look at the definition *you* provided.
Tamiflu is neither. Another key point of a vaccine is that it provides
protection (by the production of antibodies) long after the vaccine
has left the body. As soon as Tamiflu has left the body, the
protection that it conferred is gone.

Tamiflu is no more a vaccine than hand-washing.

Your continued arguing (by using more incorrect arguments) after it
has been pointed out that you are incorrect indicates that you don't
have a clue about which you are talking. You're grasping at straws,
and the wrong ones at that.

Jeff
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Mark Probert

External


Since: Nov 26, 2007
Posts: 384



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Aug 17, 10:54 am, "t" <tool....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, Jeff, why do you promote it so strongly? How is your pharma stock doing?

Dear Piss-For-Brains:

Are you really this stupid, or are you a plant trying to make the anti-
druggies look even more stupid that they are?

Jeff is NOT promoting it. He is EXPLAINING what it is. His only
mistake was using polysyllabic words.

> Or do you just get off knowing that people are harmed by your advice?

Yes, you are a plant. A pretty stupid plant, but a plant none-the-
less.

"Jeff" <jeff.....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:91b5123b-e1be-454f-8bbe-ad76906581b5@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 9:40 pm, Ilena Rose <B....TakeThisOut@mundo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vaccine
> > 1. any preparation used as a preventive inoculation to confer
> > immunity against a specific disease, usually employing an innocuous
> > form of the disease agent, as killed or weakened bacteria or viruses,
> > to stimulate antibody production.
>
> >http://www.fda.gov/Cder/Drug/infopage/tamiflu/QA20051117.htm
>
> > What is Tamiflu and what is it approved for?
>
> > Tamiflu (oseltamivir phosphate) is an antiviral drug approved for
> > treatment of uncomplicated influenza A and B in patients 1 year of age
> > or older. It is also approved for prophylaxis (prevention) of
> > influenza in people 13 years or older after household contact or at
> > high risk for exposure during influenza season. Tamiflu is one of a
> > group of anti-influenza drugs called neuraminidase inhibitors that act
> > by blocking the viral enzyme neuraminidase which helps the influenza
> > virus invade cells in the respiratory tract.
>
> Thanks. You made my point. Tamiflu is a neuramindiase inhibitor. That
> means it inhibits a viral enzyme. It doesn't cause the body to make
> antibodies like a vaccine. Furthermore, it helps prevent the virus
> from getting into cells.
>
> While vaccines prevent disease, not everything that prevents disease
> is a vaccine. For example, hand-washing prevents disease. But hand-
> washing is not a vaccine, either. Tamiflu is an antiviral drug, almost
> like an antibiotic for viruses.
>
> The key points of a vaccine are that it is an innocuous form of a
> disease agent it and it causes an immune response that causes the
> production of antibodies. Look at the definition *you* provided.
> Tamiflu is neither. Another key point of a vaccine is that it provides
> protection (by the production of antibodies) long after the vaccine
> has left the body. As soon as Tamiflu has left the body, the
> protection that it conferred is gone.
>
> Tamiflu is no more a vaccine than hand-washing.
>
> Your continued arguing (by using more incorrect arguments) after it
> has been pointed out that you are incorrect indicates that you don't
> have a clue about which you are talking. You're grasping at straws,
> and the wrong ones at that.
>
> Jeff- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Jan Drew

External


Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 2036



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>health>alternative, others (more info?)

"Ilena Rose" <BIA DeleteThis @mundo.com> wrote in message
news:cq1ca4tdihe547cd48bcashhio19afn9u5@4ax.com...
> The Vaccination Industry has had a long, successful and extremely
> profitable run vaccinating seniors with NO evidence of any benefit to
> anyone but themselves. On the internet, the Snake-oil Vigilantes (aka
> Health Frauds) spread vast amounts of industry propaganda.
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
>
> Here's an earlier article on this topic.
>
> http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
> Health Lover
>
>
> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83454.php
>
> The mortality benefits of giving elderly people the flu vaccine have
> been vastly overstated, according to a Review published in The Lancet
> Infectious Diseases, October edition. Vaccinating people over 65
> against influenza in developed countries is aimed at reducing the flu
> mortality burden.
>
> Dr Lone Simonsen, George Washington University, Washington, DC, USA
> and team say that vaccinating not-so-frail elderly people more
> frequently than their frail peers, plus the use of non-specific
> endpoints, such as all-cause mortality, are the reasons for this
> exaggeration.
>
> "The remaining evidence base is currently insufficient to indicate the
> magnitude of the mortality benefit, if any, that elderly people derive
> from the vaccination program," say the authors.
>
> Although placebo-controlled randomized trials have demonstrated that
> the flu vaccine is effective in younger adults, a small number of
> trials never included the elderly, especially those aged over 70.
> About 75% of influenza related deaths occur among people aged 70 and
> over, point out the authors.
>
> These trials suggest that clinical gains and antibody responses in the
> elderly fall with age after the age of 70.
>
> Even though vaccination coverage rose from 15% in 1980 to 65% today,
> there has been no confirmation of any influenza-related mortality
> improvement since 1980, say the authors. "Paradoxically, whereas those
> studies attribute about 5% of all winter deaths to influenza, many
> cohort studies report a 50% reduction in the total risk of death in
> winter - a benefit ten times greater than the estimated influenza
> mortality burden."
>
> The authors say that any future trial should use more precise
> endpoints, for example, vaccine effectiveness against the highly
> specific outcome of laboratory-confirmed influenza virus. Even though
> such a trial would be more expensive and labor intensive, the vaccine
> efficacy estimates are more likely to be reliable. Rather than use the
> current arbitrary 4-month period, any future trial should also
> identify the epidemic period for each season through utilization of
> actual virus surveillance data.
>
> The writers caution "While awaiting an improved evidence base for
> influenza vaccine mortality benefits in elderly people, we suggest
> that this group should continue to be vaccinated against influenza.
> Influenza causes many deaths each year, and even a partly effective
> vaccine would be better than no vaccine at all. But the evidence base
> concerning influenza vaccine benefits in elderly people does need to
> be strengthened."
>
> "If current evidence points to substantial uncertainty, then what
> next? Simonsen and colleagues suggest that 'refocusing on the likely
> complications of immune senescence would require vigorous pursuit of
> other options'. They also confront the ultimate taboo that drew so
> much scorn in the evidence overview: doing randomized trials in
> elderly people to settle the issue conclusively. That suggestion,
> which seems to fly in the face of current policies, is in our opinion
> the only ethical and scientific way to have definitive answer to the
> question of whether or not current influenza vaccines protect elderly
> people," Dr Tom Jefferson and Dr Carlo Di Pietrantonj, Cochrane
> Vaccines Field, Alessandria, Italy, write in an accompanying Comment.
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Jan Drew

External


Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 2036



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Tamiflu Vaccine Linked With Convulsions, Delirium and Bizarre Deaths [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Ilena Rose" <BIA DeleteThis @mundo.com> wrote in message
news:cq1ca4tdihe547cd48bcashhio19afn9u5@4ax.com...
> The Vaccination Industry has had a long, successful and extremely
> profitable run vaccinating seniors with NO evidence of any benefit to
> anyone but themselves. On the internet, the Snake-oil Vigilantes (aka
> Health Frauds) spread vast amounts of industry propaganda.
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
>
> Here's an earlier article on this topic.
>
> http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
> Health Lover
>
>
> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83454.php
>
> The mortality benefits of giving elderly people the flu vaccine have
> been vastly overstated, according to a Review published in The Lancet
> Infectious Diseases, October edition. Vaccinating people over 65
> against influenza in developed countries is aimed at reducing the flu
> mortality burden.
>
> Dr Lone Simonsen, George Washington University, Washington, DC, USA
> and team say that vaccinating not-so-frail elderly people more
> frequently than their frail peers, plus the use of non-specific
> endpoints, such as all-cause mortality, are the reasons for this
> exaggeration.
>
> "The remaining evidence base is currently insufficient to indicate the
> magnitude of the mortality benefit, if any, that elderly people derive
> from the vaccination program," say the authors.
>
> Although placebo-controlled randomized trials have demonstrated that
> the flu vaccine is effective in younger adults, a small number of
> trials never included the elderly, especially those aged over 70.
> About 75% of influenza related deaths occur among people aged 70 and
> over, point out the authors.
>
> These trials suggest that clinical gains and antibody responses in the
> elderly fall with age after the age of 70.
>
> Even though vaccination coverage rose from 15% in 1980 to 65% today,
> there has been no confirmation of any influenza-related mortality
> improvement since 1980, say the authors. "Paradoxically, whereas those
> studies attribute about 5% of all winter deaths to influenza, many
> cohort studies report a 50% reduction in the total risk of death in
> winter - a benefit ten times greater than the estimated influenza
> mortality burden."
>
> The authors say that any future trial should use more precise
> endpoints, for example, vaccine effectiveness against the highly
> specific outcome of laboratory-confirmed influenza virus. Even though
> such a trial would be more expensive and labor intensive, the vaccine
> efficacy estimates are more likely to be reliable. Rather than use the
> current arbitrary 4-month period, any future trial should also
> identify the epidemic period for each season through utilization of
> actual virus surveillance data.
>
> The writers caution "While awaiting an improved evidence base for
> influenza vaccine mortality benefits in elderly people, we suggest
> that this group should continue to be vaccinated against influenza.
> Influenza causes many deaths each year, and even a partly effective
> vaccine would be better than no vaccine at all. But the evidence base
> concerning influenza vaccine benefits in elderly people does need to
> be strengthened."
>
> "If current evidence points to substantial uncertainty, then what
> next? Simonsen and colleagues suggest that 'refocusing on the likely
> complications of immune senescence would require vigorous pursuit of
> other options'. They also confront the ultimate taboo that drew so
> much scorn in the evidence overview: doing randomized trials in
> elderly people to settle the issue conclusively. That suggestion,
> which seems to fly in the face of current policies, is in our opinion
> the only ethical and scientific way to have definitive answer to the
> question of whether or not current influenza vaccines protect elderly
> people," Dr Tom Jefferson and Dr Carlo Di Pietrantonj, Cochrane
> Vaccines Field, Alessandria, Italy, write in an accompanying Comment.
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